Guys I've been invited for this Recruitment Open Evening on Jan 28, London. http://events.top-consultant.com/UK/careerconference.aspx?ID=389 I'm a current MBA student and I'll have to travel to London to attend this. What are you takes on this event. Would it be of any use to me in accordance with a job or a summer project. Or should I just stay back and attend my Economic lectures :) ??? Please help.

It's always going to be tough to find a job or internship in the current environment, but by going to the event you have an additional chance. My advice is to make the most of it though - don't just go as a passive observer; make the most of it. There will be a lot of viable candidates there, so you can't afford to sit back. That said, the PA culture is relatively down-to-earth so attendees who aggressively dominate won't be doing themselves any favours. Try to "be yourself" - assuming "yourself" is confident, relaxed, articulate and has a sense of humour :-)

PA are still hiring so it's probably worth your while, although its bound to be very competitive at the moment.As always with these things if you get lucky and get talking to the right person then it could make all the difference and at least get you to interview stage. I'd say the majority of staff there will be junior, but there will be some senior MCs and Partners, so if you can identify them and make an impression then it will go a long way to getting you in the door. Make sure you know about the practice structure and which one(s) you are targeting. Its not a very joined up organisation in some respects, and that means it's not the sort of place where chatting to a senior guy from one practice will get you in the door in another.

Most of the staff that turn up at these events ar every junior, and the one or two partners that are there will have a coterie of MBA students around them trying to impress. I can't really see it'll be worth your time or personal cost turning up.Large parts of PA are still very public sector focussed, so they haven't yet felt the full effects of the downturn, but they will in time. You also need to ask yourself if you want to spend your career dealing with civil service contracts that get cancelled half way through and are beset with internal bickering and ineptitude. I know I didn't. That's why I left PA.I'd counsel sticking with your course work. It'll make make difference to your interview prospects of success whether or not you attend one of these open evenings

Agreed - I went to one of those PA events and for me it was a waste of time. OF course, your mileage may vary.One guy I got chatting to hit the nail on the head when he asked one of the PA people "So what jobs have you got on offer?" and got "Uhhhm... errrghhh... uh.. I'll have to get back to you on that one... uhh... why don't you speak to the HR person over there" (cue pointing at single HR girl surrounded by a ravenous pack of about 20 desperately eager PA-wannabes) as a response.

Why would a random consultant know which posts are being advertised? It's the recruiter's job to track which posts are open, which are closed, which are at shortlist, etc. Consultants are are in attendance to answer more important questions. If you couldn't be bother to look at the website beforehand, you're not yourself any favours. Get the message - if someone refers you to HR, it means they don't rate you and you've not taken more subtle hints to get lost.

Never teach someone to suck eggs, because no matter how many times you teach them, they will never know how. You have to show them :)mba0809, did PA invite you because they selected you from the thousands of MBA students or did you show an interest in PA?Seems random if PA contacted you if you haven't shown interest in them. Or maybe you were recommended by a lecturer?? Anyway, I believe it would be worthwhile you visiting this event even though you may not be given a job you sure will have taken away some contacts. After all, being an MBA student, I'm sure you have learnt the essential skills to network/winning new clients but not experienced how to apply those skills :)Good luck!

Went to one 2 years ago: I was quite junior (3-4 years experience) and still thought it was a waste of time. It was very generic corporate brochure, delivered through speach instead of on paper. To be fair, I didn't hang around after the presentation to speak to anyone (ratio was about 15 attendees to each PAer).

Yeah Blunt,That's specifically what 'm looking at too. I have decided to visit the fair. Will post my opinions after I get back.Thank You.

Why on earth do you want to join PA, especially if you have an MBA?You like IT projects and low salary?

Pi, the consultant we were speaking to seemed to have no idea whatsoever of what PA was looking to achieve with this event. The event I attended was a recruitment event for a single practice, so surely anyone with their finger even remotely on the pulse would surely have an idea of broadly what skills etc they're looking for? I (and several others) got the overwhelming impression that somebody had dreamed up the idea that "we wanna grow this practice big so let's hold a recruitment event" without actually having a clear idea about what/where/how they were looking to expand. It says a lot that you think the consultants are there to answer "more important questions" than a question asked by an attendee at one of these events, and that all the judging is to be done on the PA side. Any legitimate question asked by somebody attending one of these events should be treated as "important". Do you also dismiss in this kind of way questions asked by clients ?I used to have a very high opinion of PA's staff. However, there seem to be a few rotten apples that are full of their own self-importance and are driving good candidates away.

“we wanna grow this practice big so let's hold a recruitment event"That’s really the nub of PA’s problems. The senior team announced in 2004 that they wanted to increase the headcount within the organisation by 50% within 3 years.The eventual outcome was that there was no growth in numbers whatsoever. The reality is that PA Consulting are the only UK consultancy of any size not to have grown in staff size over the golden years period of 1997 to 2007. Why would you join any organisation that is incapable of growth?

'...Why would you join any organisation that is incapable of growth?'Since when did growth become so important? Surely it's much more important to grow slowly and profitably than to expand too quickly and go bust. That way, you don't have to shed bucket loads of jobs and impose promotion freezes during more challenging times.

"Since when did growth become so important? Surely it's much more important to grow slowly "Oh dear. That sort of philosophy explains why PA will always be a second rate company, attracting second rate staff and clients

Measuring business growth purely by headcount is foolish for a consultancy. It may work for outsourcers who can bargain on an average work-rate across huge staff numbers. In professional services, success is much more driven by utilisation and profit-per-head of whatever staff you have.

Well, overall the event was okay, not a waste.. They are looking to recruit for 2009 and hence they have called for this fair. Looks like they would evaluate the resumes and get back in two weeks.And why IT after MBA, I'm looking at Strategy and Project Management. Don't see a problem with IT yet ..

Profiteer - you're right about growth. It's the mentality of a cancer cell.But I'm afraid no professional service firm is driven by utilisation or profit per head. These are not drivers or causes of success, they are effects.

"Why would you join any organisation that is incapable of growth?" I agree PA should have exploited its opportunities more to grow, too risk averse and the partners don't want to tinker with the business model. However, that same business model will pay out £60m in bonuses this year when pretty much every other competitor is firing, freezing and generally shafting their staff.

And you are confident that PA will buck the market trend, when everyone else is suffering?Its only a matter of time before PA starts "firing, freezing and generally shafting their staff". They are already quite adept at the shafting bit

"Its only a matter of time before PA starts "firing, freezing and generally shafting their staff". How so? Whilst the economic outlook remains volatile, PA have had a good start to the year with many Practices sold out. Sold work and utilisation remain strong, so the "matter of time" seems to be based on an odd interpretation of PA's current position.

I agree. With PA doing such a lot of central Government work, this will never dry up.

The last two posts are breathtaking.For a consultancy with little reputation outside the UK public sector for anything other than losing memory sticks, that sort of arrogant attitude is astounding

"For a consultancy with little reputation outside the UK public sector for anything other than losing memory sticks, that sort of arrogant attitude is astounding"PA has a very good reputation outside the UK public sector, as evidenced by over half of PA's revenue coming from private sector clients.I'm also not sure it's really arrogant to infer that because PA consistently deliver sustainable change to Public Sector Clients we're hopefully well placed to retain our customers during the downturn. This seems to be fair representation of PA's current market position.

Much as you keep trying to make that mud stick, literally nobody except you makes the association between memory sticks and PA. Sorry!

I have been informed that I will have an interview for the Business and Information Technology practise.Any one working for that practise? Any thoughts on what exactly it is?I have gone through the website but I would like to know more from someone.

"literally nobody except you makes the association between memory sticks and PA. Sorry!"Sorry! But other than employees, former employees and a few other consultants, this is the only association that anybody makesif they've heard of PA. And it will be years before anybody forgets it.But even so, its yesterday's news. The association makes not a jot of difference.

"literally nobody except you makes the association between memory sticks and PA. Sorry!" Does Jacqui Smith, I wonder?

I just came across this and laughed out loud.I work for a competitor, and we will happily remind any public sector client that will listen that PA Consulting group were the company that lost the memory stick full of criminals details. It usually works in frightening them off dealing with PA.

"I work for a competitor, and we will happily remind any public sector client that will listen that PA Consulting group were the company that lost the memory stick full of criminals details.It usually works in frightening them off dealing with PA."Do you work for the competitor who lost a laptop full of vodafone's employee data, the competitor that failed to notice 13,500 fake employees on the books, the competitor that lost MOD data on hard drives, the competitor that lost sensitive client data for a bank on a laptop or a different competitor?

"It usually works in frightening them off dealing with PA."More likely, it frightens them off working with you. Seriously, would you work with a firm who has so little to recommend themselves that their primary sales tactic is to try and blacken competitors? Of course not. Not only would that be a very difficult procurement decision to defend, but also no client wants to work with a consultant who comes across as a complete tw*t.P.S. Not wanting to work with tw*ts is a widely accepted reason to reject a vendor from the procurement process.

Tw*ts?? Charming !!Its one of the oldest sales techniques in the book: FUD - Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. Then again, given that PA have lost so much market share in the past 10 years, while everyone else's revenue was rocketing, its easy to see that sales is not something that comes easy to the organisation (unless its selling to some obscure city council).No one needs to blacken PA's image in the market - through their mishandling of the loss of highly sensitive Government data they did that for themselves

They lost the data, but they didn't mishandle the loss of the data. From what I remember they came clean immediately, opened their doors to the police, beefed up security and sacked the three people held responsible.At least they realised the data was gone in the first place, unlike some of their competitors?!

I don't get this whole data loss thing. Let's imagine you're some spotty 23 year old grad and you've just found out that you can't find your USB memory stick with various bits and pieces on it including a copy of that database you were working with. It's probably kicking around on the floor of some cafe somewhere, or wedged down the back of your living room sofa. So what do you do:a) keep your gob shut and get a new memory stick - the old one will probably never resurface, so let sleeping dogs lieor b) go visit your managing partner in person and make a really big deal about what a crisis this is and then get marketing to put a few press releases out.I don't get it, why would anyone choose anything other than option A?

"From what I remember they came clean immediately, opened their doors to the police, beefed up security and sacked the three people held responsible. "Classic PA - always a bit behind the curve. Ever hear the expression "Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted"?

I don't understand why whoever it was that lost the USB stick didn't just quietly close the stable door and hope nobody ever noticed it came open in the first place...

Sounds like someone had a conscience. Something which impresses me, and I wish there was more of in consulting.

If only our partners had a conscience on how they treat staff...Boom year in 2008 followed by nil pay rise (for all) and nil bonuses (for most). What a lovely employer

Well it's nice to hear how well treated that conscientious person who accidentally lost the memory stick was, and that everybody focused their debate on the institutionalised procedures and issues that need resolving to prevent further incidents rather than going on a witch hunt and shouting "heads must roll!!!!".

She got firedThe MC on the job got firedThe partner on the job got firedHow much more of a witch hunt do you want?

PA Person,When is the earliest that someone can resign from PA but still be eligible for the bonus. I'm looking to resign, but need to find the right date

Do you really work there? It's common knowledge you need to have the bonus in your bank account before you can resign.

"Boom year in 2008 followed by nil pay rise (for all) and nil bonuses (for most)."Yeah, look around you. Hopefully you have stupid enough to write your message on a PA computer and we lose you soon enough.Nil bonuses? You really don't quite grasp PA's business model do you? 12% of the company get nothing, same as any other year. Boo hoo. Hopefully you're on a 1.

PA Person, I was being sarcastic. I was making the general point that it doesn't pay to have a conscience when you work with people who don't have one themselves.

"12% of the company get nothing, same as any other year"This is factually incorrect. The number of 1s (and 2s) awarded in any year can be flexed at both a corporate and a local practice level. The bonus pot is also very flexible. It is within the gift of corporate to retain a larger chunk of profits in hard times.I would imagine that this year the number of 1s (usually 10 - 15%) and 2s (usually 45 - 50%), will be massively increased to ensure that the limited bonus pot will be heavily skewed to the small number of staff (perhaps less than 20%) who will get a 3 or a 4. Note also that the practice can alter the bonus allocation method without notice, as BOP did in March 2008 to skew the bonus pot towards those rated above a certain level, and heavily reducing bonuses for the majority of staff that were rated below this level.

"It is within the gift of corporate to retain a larger chunk of profits in hard times."They're not doing that this year though. Indeed, I don't believe they've ever done it. "Note also that the practice can alter the bonus allocation method without notice"I know. That's very different to saying "most" people get nil bonus though, even your explanation shows up to a massive 15% (3% more than I said) will get nothing. Despite all the rumours, there's no evidence they've changed the bell curve anyway - and it's still a record bonus pot with a smaller number of people for the rest. Honestly, if you don't like it, why stay?

I associate PA with raping the UK tax payer

It appears that your complaint is about the performance management and grading curve not being "fair".In which firms, exam boards, universities, or schools is the grading curve "fair" do you think? Which firms actually manage to reward all employees, regardless of partnership or seniority according to true "value added"?I don't work at PA, but I don't imagine it's any worse than other firms. In fact, it sounds better than most. Performance assessment and reward in many firms is entirely discretionary. They don't even have performance bands and employees certainly don't know the distribution of performance ratings.

"I associate PA with raping the UK tax payer"For what? All bonuses pay full NI and PAYE tax rates.They used to do the old dividend trick (as did many professional services firms) 10 years ago but that's been long since outlawed.

"For what? All bonuses pay full NI and PAYE tax rates"They go even further than that: all bonuses pay both Employers and Employees NI and PAYE, thereby overstating the bonus figure by 10%